Hub, range, documentation

My AIR and SKY combo just arrived in the mail Looks sweet. Admit to some initial nonplus though on basis of this, one of which is an open question I am asking here (the rest being feedback):

  1. Total lack of info in the box as to what is what. Further went to the URL cited and it still took me a lot of effort before I worked out what each of the four bits was! Not a great experience.

  2. No batteries. Sheesh. Not a crisis, but everyone knows that well, now I ordered a dozen of the recommended batteries on-line and they’ll be here in two weeks so two weeks to wait. Not a cool experience. Given the batteries cost me $24:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12PCS-1-5V-3000mAh-Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-AA-Battery-2028-L91-Battery-NEW/163013194452?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I’d just as soon added $24 to the price.

  1. I’m still not clear on exactly what the hub is and does (am I really thick or what?, I mean I have some idea the AIR and SKY talk to the hub over bluetooth and the hub to me over wifi or bluetooth), but a lick of documentation on it wouldn’t hurt surely … which brings me to my question:

  2. Clearly the hub is described as indoors, and the AIR and SKY as outdoors, but I imagine if they are 1km apart things won’t work will they. What is the range that the hub supports? Pretty crucial data in deciding where to mount them outside surely. Or are you thinking it’s a good km so doesn’t matter where I mount them?

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WF does not include batteries to simplify international shipping. Even a company as large as Amazon confuses lithium batteries with lithium-ion, and force orders containing them to ship via ground (and not air) with hazmat warning labels.

In terms of radio range, WF posted a video during early testing from a beach (flat ground) where they had at least 1km range if I recall correctly. As with everything else in near-gigahertz radio, line-of-sight, local obstacles, and number of wall penetrations will impact the ultimate range. If you have a good siting location that’s 1 km away from your wifi, try it and see if the signal reaches the Hub…

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So the comms between Hub and AIR/SKY is RF not Bluetooth? Is this documented anywhere?

Yes, under the FAQs on the Smart Home Weather Stations website.

WHAT IS THE WIRELESS RANGE?
AIR & SKY communicate with HUB via powerful sub-gHz telemetry radios. We have tested the radio signal over 300 meters (1000 ft+) in a clear line-of-sight. All situations differ with local obstructions like walls and power interference.

http://weatherflow.com/smart-home-weather-stations/frequently-asked-questions/

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Bluetooth is RF that is low power.

from the link that you provide I see that you bought unofficial batteries that will not come with the original package so you may have some problem with it, it should come with the original package like this s-l1600
and here the link for 12pack with just $13.49 https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-Batteries-Count/dp/B071D87WPV/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1528979014&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=energizer%2Bultimate%2Blithium%2Baa&th=1

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packaging varies per country he bought the correct ones , here in turkey sold in 10 pcs

no flashy plastic packaging just a printed box BT04600-40

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I don’t know about this, and thanks to let me know about that, but the price($24) is too expensive though.

too expensive try living here mate , might be cheaper on amazon but add on import duty and local,tax and administration fee if not paid prior to being sent … you never win … brian

Not everyone lives in U.S

Looking at the Amazon reviews of another bulk pack, it sure does look like someone is pushing knockoffs or factory seconds:

https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-Size-Batteries/dp/B004EFT2BU/#customerReviews

(The giveaway seems to be that these are listed as 3000mAh, and the specs on the retail packages are 3300-3400mAh.)

Someone should let the genetic scientists know, since they haven’t had much luck in cloning bunnies… :rofl:

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if packaging is of concern here is one of boxes supplied by weatherflow for one of the test units earlier this year

image

16

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@WFmarketing - For the sake of completeness, can you please add the UDP broadcasts to this most excellent diagram???

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Awesome diagram! Be nice to add approximate ranges (or ranges of ranges - worst case, best case).

@bernd.wechner Range can vary greatly when every environment is different (walls, electrical interference, competing radios, weather, bricks, etc). We have tested the wireless signal out to 1000m with clean direct line-of-sight no obstacles.

Also, we spent months testing sub gHz radios and engineering the right technology at this price point and power consumption. You will find that the range between our HUB and the sensor devices AIR & SKY far exceeds any comparable weather station on the market. But as they say – performance may vary depending on your unique environment.

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Fair enough, but doesn’t prevent a a range like 100m to 1000m being usefully put on the chart. I worked in project management for years and helps a lot of professionals understand the utility and ease of estimation when you simply consider worst and best and typical scenarios. That leads to McConnell’s 3-poiint estimation recommendations (worst case, expected case, best case). To wit something like 10m, 100m, 1000m is still very very useful to a newb like me wanting to set this up. A footnote with (1000m with clear line of sight, 100m easily through typical house walls between indoor hub and Air or Sky, … etc. …) all takes a little though it all and desire to communicate.

Very useful diagram however it may help less technical users if a local router / internet access is added to the WiFi path from the Hub to the WeatherFlow servers. I don’t think your WiFi has that kinda range lol.

The problem is that as soon as the specs quantify a range estimate, many people will hold you to it. As an example, read the whining/reviews for these “50 mile” FRS walkie talkies:

https://www.amazon.com/Uniden-Submersible-Two-Way-Radios-Charging/dp/B008F57ICU/

RF at gigahertz plus frequencies is a truly fickle thing, and in FCC Part 15 applications there technically isn’t even a guarantee that two devices can communicate with their antennas right next to each other…

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Is that diagram actually correct ? Do the 3rd party integrations happen from the WF servers, or from the Hub ? Also, you might want to show a residential WiFi gateway or something between the Hub and the WF servers, as we’re certainly not talking WiFi from our houses to wherever your servers are…